Possible Age of Sigmar Rules Comp

General discussion about Warhammer Fantasy Battles
Brandon
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Possible Age of Sigmar Rules Comp

Postby Brandon » Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:35 pm

I have seen a bunch of systems so far, I was hoping to get a consensus for creation of lists or list like systems here in AZ so we can try to get a community going. Here are some items that have been floating around, what does everyone think?

Counting Wounds - Doesn't seem to work too well as a way of balancing armies.

Counting Warscrolls - Only sets a very vague battle size.

Azyr Comp System - Points and battle sizes system seems nice and simple. Rules slightly tweaked but not over the top. Not just based on algorithms. Seems promising. - http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=410903

Scroll of Might - haven't looked at this much. - http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=411805

AoS SDK - Looks very detailed and thorough, would be interesting to see it playtested. - https://sites.google.com/site/ageofsigmarsdk/

HAGGG - Another one in development, composition rules and tweaks rather than points - http://heelanhammer.com/?p=34

Clash of Swords 2015 "Mo Comp" - Rough comp for a tournament. - https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/882 ... 20v0.2.pdf

AoS Players' Handbook - Points system and polling website to adjust points. http://www.docdroid.net/20f5WZr/aos-pla ... k.pdf.html http://www.aoscomp.org/home.html

Age of Wargamers - Comp and points. http://ageofwargamers.blogspot.co.uk/

What does everyone think works best?
Bruno
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Re: Possible Age of Sigmar Rules Comp

Postby Bruno » Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:28 pm

I am still on the fence with AoS. I know a lot of people are working on comp rules but I feel the main rules need more work. I don't like the fact that terrain does not cause movement penalties. Also the measuring to the closes point of the models is silly. I really feel we should measure to the base or the center of the model. They really need to add about two more pages of rules to make this a game and the comp rules will need to be part of that. I have read a few of the links you posted and they are a good starting point. The community needs to come together on this so we can have pick up games at the stores and not always playing the battles in the books. The one I saw and liked the best just limited the number of war scrolls you could take based on the unit type, ie one named hero, 2-3 monsters or war machines. If I had a link I would add it but it was something I saw on twitter and will have to try and find it again.
wilkinson73
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Re: Possible Age of Sigmar Rules Comp

Postby wilkinson73 » Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:28 pm

Why do we need to even talk about comp with tourney rules. Isn't it clear that GW doesn't want this to be a competative game. Are we so disconnected as a society that we can't as players talk for 5-10 before a game and hash what we are brining and what scenario we do?
wilkinson73
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Re: Possible Age of Sigmar Rules Comp

Postby wilkinson73 » Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:34 pm

BTW I do like some of these ideas and if you and your opponent agree on them they are good guidelines. I just don't think it is a good idea to put this in a tourney?
Julian
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Re: Possible Age of Sigmar Rules Comp

Postby Julian » Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:06 pm

I've seen a few variations,

What seems to work the best is an overall wound cap followed by caps on keywords such as limiting to 1-3 heroes and 0-2 monsters etc, additionally you can put a wound cap per warscroll such as 20-25 wounds this limits the large blocks (or smaller OP blocks of ogres), as well as a rule for no duplicate warscrolls unless bringing a battalion that requires it to prevent spam. This literally takes about 1 minute to discuss with your opponent before deployment and you can spend more time playing. I expect to see any tournaments use something like this in the future.

The best secondary rule I have seen is the "don't be a jackass" rule I saw somewhere and that seems to work well for friendly or local games which everyone I have played with has followed and I have had nothing but fun close games so far.

There will always be guys who try to min/max/break any system you don't have to be that guy or play him, and if you are planning on running a tournament realize someone will try to game your rules for any advantage they can get you can only do your best.
Brandon
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Re: Possible Age of Sigmar Rules Comp

Postby Brandon » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:49 am

I think that is the point though.

One of the best parts of this game was building a list and playing tournaments, after I spend 300 plus hours painting and modeling. I really want to play people that are fresh and new. I play the same bunch of people all the time, or I use to when it was 8th. I am just trying to stay motivated in painting, and having an end game of a tournament to look forward to is one of the things that makes me stay motivated.

When I play I want to win, but I want to play against someone who has the same power army as me so when I win or lose it was 80 percent me and 20 percent die rolls and rules. So having a semi-balanced rule set for constructing an army is something I want. I have tried the rules as written and bringing all the models I could field, and that is a fail and frankly no fun. I am going to try the point system above a few times more and see how that works out, so far it seems to work well if you limit heroes to a percent of the total points.

I agree that measuring from any point on the model is dumb. We have settled on measuring from bases, and coherency from the model excluding weapons. Seems to work exceptionally well. Also, summoning is obviously OP and I am a Daemon Player. I have multiple GD's and more other models than I could ever field in a game. We limited it to the summoned units being able to do nothing the turn they are summoned. It's ok, still needs work I think.

Again, I am just throwing out ideas, I would really like to have a tourney so I am not giving up on this game. Please don't make me play against all those damn 40k armies, I don't want to...

Brandon
Julian
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Re: Possible Age of Sigmar Rules Comp

Postby Julian » Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:52 am

Personally I found that 8th made it very difficult for me to stay motivated and painting.

I hated painting 40-50 of the same models just to get the large block that was necessary in most armies to be competitive. I liked the look of some models for my army but their effectiveness in game vs points made them garbage on the field so I never bought them or got to paint them unless it was purely for the hobby as it was not efficient to bring them to the game (or I would need 40-50 of them).

I would have liked to collect more armies but the sheer number of models needed to just get started was a big project to take on. Now I have my existing Aelfs, plus the Sigmarites and Chaos from the boxed set to start with and if I see a new unit that I like I can probably grab it and build a warscroll battalion out of it to bring to a game or just bring it with one of my other armies.

I do think Age of Sigmar will bring in new people to play against, I have already played games against people who I never saw playing 8th (and some of the people I didn't like playing in 8th have gone away).

I am optimistic and have had fun with the new rules and I am sure Tournament Organizers will very come up with a way to balance it based upon wounds/keywords/warscrolls, etc. There will of course be people who will find the most efficient combination of these however as with all other editions anything noticed to be overly OP will be restricted, I haven't played against a summoning list but I can see how it would be powerful however I think a good opponent could focus the summoners with their own magic/shooting/warmachines if there were a limit on how many were brought.

Even with an unbalanced lists the new rules do allow for some interesting things to happen. Some of the things that I have seen happen already involve the initiative roll every round causing more in depth tactics as you have to put yourself in a position to take advantage if you get the first turn as well as to not leave yourself too exposed if you don't, the same thing is true with magic, to unbind someone else s spell your wizard has to get close and essentially expose themselves. From the boxed set I really enjoy the way the force multipliers work in synergy in the Chaos army and I hope this trend continues.

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