*cricket chirp*

General discussion about Warhammer Fantasy Battles
Lightningman
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Re: *cricket chirp*

Postby Lightningman » Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:30 pm

Like I said, maybe it's just me, or maybe I have been missing the good bits. Just telling you what my impression of it has been from what I have seen.

That said I dunno how anyone can call WH fantasy static, I know some people lately have been doing the "my 3-4 big blocks close on your 3-4 big blocks and we grind it out" thing (which is admittedly pretty dull) but there is all kindsa stuff going on all over the place when I play, units everywhere constant positioning, stuff blowing up, etc...

Just my $.02
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Re: *cricket chirp*

Postby JBFlanz » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:25 am

I guess it is just that artillery are powerful, wizards (who many people think are the most broken things about 8th) do not want to be in combat, and people put there generals in bunkers of crappy troops makes me think things are not going anywhere fast. I agree that the big block crap needs to head home and a good "flanking" is incredibly powerful, but at the end of the day, two units can spend multiple rounds fighting each other. If you melee is in melee, your ranged do not move, and your casters and generals hang in the back, I would say that things aren't going very fast.
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*cricket chirp*

Postby BrandonPHX » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:53 am

The last few times I've played Fantasy I've felt that I just march forward and take models off trays as they get shoot and spelled to death. The most involved I've felt is trying to guess what spell I should try to dispell with my two dice.

With Warmachine I normally walk away feeling that I won or lost based on well my opponent and I played the game. That makes the game a bit more fun for me.


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Re: *cricket chirp*

Postby SkavenInAZ » Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:00 am

The fact that this thread has devolved into "Warmahordes vs. Fantasy" has, I think, proved my thought behind this original post. Fantasy players are mostly dying out or moving on, although there are a few diehards left out there.

Thanks for the responses.
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Re: *cricket chirp*

Postby SlaaneshiCultist » Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:43 am

Lightningman wrote:Like I said, maybe it's just me, or maybe I have been missing the good bits. Just telling you what my impression of it has been from what I have seen.

That said I dunno how anyone can call WH fantasy static, I know some people lately have been doing the "my 3-4 big blocks close on your 3-4 big blocks and we grind it out" thing (which is admittedly pretty dull) but there is all kindsa stuff going on all over the place when I play, units everywhere constant positioning, stuff blowing up, etc...

Just my $.02


Typical warmahordes game: 45 minutes

Typical fantasy game: 3 hours

You can walk away from a fantasy table for an hour and come back and not miss much. You walk away from a warmahordes game for 10 minutes you miss a ton. Blowing stuff up in fantasy means killing 10-15 troops and there are still 30 some left. Blowing stuff up in warmahordes is crippling your opponents list by killing a warjack, an entire unit, or the caster itself. Warmachine is fluid, dynamic, and intricate. There is no "I win" button or spell (usually, it is a VERY rare occurence that a feat can win, but even then it is usually an opponent mistake). Seeing as you have played one sort of game and did not understand what you were watching the other time maybe you should learn before knocking the system. I hate fantasy anymore, but I have played it for YEARS and I am upset by what GW has done to their used to be awesome game.

And I am with Jason. I was loading my DB .50 cal to come in here and tear face, but I thought better of it. You play easily the most static games I have ever played, and trust me I have played a TON of games. You should play a game with Flanzer if you think it is a static row of shoot 'em up, he will show you different. Also, think of this: would you like to have a card with your models' stats, special abilities, and points cost clearly defined in one place and handy so when your opponent asks a question it does not take 5 minutes of looking it up in the army book? Yes? I figured as much, because it is awesomeness just like bacon bits sprinkled on bacon served with ranch dipping sauce. The cards are for quick reference only, do not kid yourself into thinking you could use a card to play warmachine. Good god.
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Re: *cricket chirp*

Postby Kiev » Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:24 am

SlaaneshiCultist wrote: I was loading my DB .50 cal to come in here and tear face, but I thought better of it.


Mike's DB arsenal

SlaaneshiCultist wrote:
The cards are for quick reference only, do not kid yourself into thinking you could use a card to play warmachine. Good god.


Tis true, one could grab a Forces of Warmachine book and use that vice the cards. I would love to see someone start a new army and use just the book. haha! Damage would be a B****.

Back on topic:: I enjoyed 7th ed very much and was very excited with 8th ed. I took a 3 month hiatus from the game shortly after 8th came out and once people learned the rules and started building armies for it my interest quickly sank. I would one day start a new army should one of the armies I like get great models but prob wouldn't play till at least 1/2 the armybooks are updated or 9th ed comes out.
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Re: *cricket chirp*

Postby IonControl » Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:07 am

As someone who is just getting into warmachine (have a few 40k chaos models left before getting the Cryx going :)), I think I understand what is being seen with Warmachine that makes it look static or cardy.

Most WM/Hordes pickup games I see don't seem to have any scenario running besides destroying the other side, e.g. no control points, getting models into opposing deployment zone etc. Each player deploys his pieces to get them into the action ASAP, which leads to a battle line of pieces at setup. The battle line then moves forward until within charge distance of the other, then melee ensues. As far as the cards, the battle lines have the cards laid out MTG style behind the units for player clarity/organization, so I see how this arrangement could make the game look like a MTG-with-minis game.

This limited-scenario view I got is probably due to me being at the same store at about the same time seeing the same group of people playing. What got me to put money into the game is a combination of cools minis (zombie pirates!? heck yeah!) and player count.

On the flip side, I find getting into Fantasy daunting because of the higher model count and lower player count.

As far as Malifaux being a card game, that is really a misconception of the Fate deck used instead of dice. The deck is really a re-suited 52-card poker deck. The main rulebook has a little section about using a standard playing deck showing how to "translate" the suits. To me, having an official Fate Deck is the same as getting a pack of dice with a color scheme that matches my army. Full disclosure, I have a Neverborn deck and a puppet deck as well as dice matched to each army :)
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Re: *cricket chirp*

Postby slayyer » Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:03 am

The great debate-- "tastes great- less filling"
oops
I meant the debate between fantasy miniature games.

Malifaux nor warmachine are card games because they use cards. Warhammer uses cards too and uses many more cards than warmachine. 56 spell cards to choose from as well as 64 new ones released today for storm of magic.
Warmachine/hordes uses cards to mark damage to the jacks or beasts the same way battletech and starfleet battles used unit sheets to mark damage when the mechs or ships took damage. Difference is the warmahordes sheets are card sized. Several historical navy or air-combat miniature games use unit cards to mark the damage to each ship. Hell dorado skirmish miniature game does too.
Sheets and cards are game aides. Magic: the gathering players use dice or game aidesmark and track damage but magic is still a card game.

I have played warhammer since the boxed set of books for first edition when the 1980's rolled in. I remember it as herohammer- Level 25 hero riding a manticore or dragon going from unit to unit chewing them up while the wizards could cast spells at any time in the game and were killing troops by the handfull each time they cast a spell. It was a storm of magic.
25+ years later we have another storm of magic. Bigger units, bigger monsters, stronger magic, more spell cards to have on the table.... Magic hammer.

So of course several people have given up on warhammer fantasy battles since 8th ed. plays differently and the cost to continue playing rises faster than the fun factor.
When warhammer first came around it was one of a few fantasy battle games. For many years it had weak fantasy gaming competiton. But now there are several good alternatives to warhammer fantasy battles . Not saying one game is better than any other but players see they do not have to settle for a particular game because there is nothing else out there that is good. And that means cricket chirps for some warhammer fantasy battle groups....and tumbleweeds.
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Re: *cricket chirp*

Postby mcloven » Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:47 pm

My only comment on here is. These are all games and you should just play the one that you like. As that's what these are boys games. Some play fantasy and some play 40k others play warmachine/hordes and still others play maluifux. If your worried about not enough players I am sure you can find a group for any. However the thing is these are games and we should all just play what we like and have a good time.
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Re: *cricket chirp*

Postby iandimitri » Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:24 am

mcloven wrote:My only comment on here is. These are all games and you should just play the one that you like. As that's what these are boys games. Some play fantasy and some play 40k others play warmachine/hordes and still others play maluifux. If your worried about not enough players I am sure you can find a group for any. However the thing is these are games and we should all just play what we like and have a good time.


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