An overlooked CSM unit?

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Mojo_Jojo
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An overlooked CSM unit?

Postby Mojo_Jojo » Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:22 am

Was doing some touch ups on my CSM army, replacing busted bits and finished up 8 havoc launchers on some rhinos that I started, oh, maybe 3 years ago... when I looked at the codex and started adding up how much a dakka pred costs.

Pred w/ autocannon. 75pts
Heavy Bolter Sponsons. 20pts
Combi-Bolter 5pts
Combi-Plasma 10pts
Havoc Launcher 12pts
Warpflame Gargoyles 5pts

Total is 127pts for 2x str7, 6x str5, 2x str4 twin linked and/or 2 more str4 or 1 shot plasma gun and a str5 blast twin link.... and soulblaze on top of it all... seems kinda cheap for all that? It's cheaper than the damage output equivalent Havoc squad. I think I might try some spamming of this in my fluff lists....
Jaygh
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Re: An overlooked CSM unit?

Postby Jaygh » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:04 pm

It's not bad at all, I just feel like there are better CSM heavy support options, such as Obliterators, or 5 havocs with 4 autocannons for 115 points. Still, if you want to go full mech, Dakkapreds are not a bad option. I just really like my 3x2 Nurgle Oblit setup.
NightLordsOldtimer
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Re: An overlooked CSM unit?

Postby NightLordsOldtimer » Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:19 pm

Agree with Jay, only for me the optimal load out (if I've got the points) is 2X7 Nurgle Havocs with Autocannon, and one unit of 2 Nurgle Oblits.

But the dakkaPreds are pretty durn cheap for some very effective crowd control. At double force org I'd be tempted to run 2, but never 1 solo, and you've got to be careful about keeping your side (& rear) armor away from anything that could take First Blood. Also, you don't want to move them if you don't have to, or at 6" you'll only get to fire 1 weapon at full BS & have to snap fire the others. Not terrible, if you absolutely have to move, but I wouldn't think of Preds as being a mobile fire base in 6th Ed since the "can fire all defensive weapons" is gone...
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Mojo_Jojo
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Re: An overlooked CSM unit?

Postby Mojo_Jojo » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:44 pm

I just wish that non flying vehicles hadnt lost so much effectiveness in this edition. I've tried running rhinos several times and the no assaulting after you get out (or blown up) makes them totally worthless now. Land Raiders at least seem to have gotten a bit of a bump due to the assault ramps and the general lack of melta out there.

For Oblits they probably are the most effective heavy choice for CSM's but a couple problems with them in this codex makes me scratch my head. Not fearless anymore. Ugh. So you have to upgrade them to Vets of the Long War. 2 w/ the MON is 158pts, so 8pts more than last codex but get +1T so las cannons won't instagib anymore. I wish that anything with the special rule Demon in it would get faq'd to fall in line w/ the demon codex... auto pass morale but have instability... another issue I have is that GW only sells Oblits off their direct sales website while leaving Mutilators to rot on store shelves.

I honestly haven't run havoc's in this edition yet tbh. I have 3 units of 10ea, all MoN. 4 las-cannons, 4 heavy bolters and 4 missile launchers. I should probably try and figure out an easy autocannon conversion, or maybe proxy it..
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Re: An overlooked CSM unit?

Postby NightLordsOldtimer » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:46 am

A suggestion for Autocannon conversion is to pick up an Aegis Defense Line & use the Quad Gun from that. Or, if you're placing a Forge World order, or know someone who is, they have a 5-pack of Autocannon designed for SMs/CSMs that are awesome & only £11.

What I did was pick up the Cadian Heavy Weapon Squad, which has 3 Autocannon in it, then I got the 4th from a friend who had bitz. (You might be able to find the odd Cadian AC at the next Merc Market). They're about the same size as the Quad Gun ACs, but you only get 3 in the Heavy Weapon Squad, but you can probably then sell the remainder of the HW Squad to someone who wants the Lascannons & the guys, and recoup most of your cost. Anyway, the Havocs do end up looking like they're "compensating", but I've got 4 with the Cadian ACs, 3 of the "normal" Havoc ACs that you only get 1 to a box in the Havoc boxed set, and a third, older design. My Havocs are Night Lords, so it ends up looking like they've scrounged the ACs from the battlefield after defeating some Cadians, which is very fluffy for me, at least.

Anyway, that's my suggestion for getting a squad of AC Havocs kitted up. Missile Havocs are really good, too, but if you give them SkyFire they get expensive points-wise. AC Havocs put out a ton of S7 shots that are a big threat to a lot of things on the battlefield, including most armor; they've got a really good chance of glancing pretty much anything that's AV 12 or less to death. One squad of 7 Nurgle AC Havocs is just 162 points, and if you can spare another 7 points in your list you can make them Veterans. That gives you 3 ablative wounds (including the Aspiring Champ), T5 & a pretty good Ld value for when they get shot at (& they will!). That's more shots thnt a pair of Nurgle Oblits can put out for about the same points, and reliably, and you can park them in cover & reach most of the battlefield. I always try to take 2 squads of 7 Nurgle AC Havocs.

Lascannons got cheaper, but really aren't worth it, while Missile Launchers are points effective & versatile, but get pricey when you add SkyFire. Heavy Bolters are good for crowd control, but don't have the reach & Strength of the Autocannons. My AC Havocs have been known to bring down fliers, not consistently, but enough to make me proud of 'em, including a Storm Raven or 2. Yeah, that's a lot of 6s to roll, but it has happened. :-D

Just keep in mind that a good player is going to see them for the threat that they are & concentrate fire on them early, which is why the ablative wounds & T5 helps them to stick around & help out where they're needed.

Anyway, my 2 cents. Sorry if I rambled; it's late, and I have a strong opinion on the subject. :-P
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