Cypher

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DrunkenSamurai
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Re: Cypher

Postby DrunkenSamurai » Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:45 pm

I had a legitimate question and I asked it. Your attitude in the whole thing as just reinforced my decision for not playing. And I will troll any post here I like, thank you.

Robert
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Charistoph
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Re: Cypher

Postby Charistoph » Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:56 pm

NightLordsOldtimer wrote:I would like to add that I just had an "A-ha!" moment. I now see what you have been trying to explain, but I had to walk thru the steps in my head before I had the epiphany. For those still following this discussion, let me illuminate:

~ Scenario:
~~~ Two players are about to play a game of 40K. After the preliminaries, they have rolled off to determine who will deploy first. Player A will deploy first, and Player B will deploy second. Both players each have one unit with the Infiltrate USR.

++ Begin Deployment Phase ++

+++++ Begin Primary Deployment Sub-Phase +++++

==> Player A deploys all of his units except those that either he will keep in Reserve, or that have at least 1 model in them that has the Infiltrate USR.
==> Player B now deploys all of his units except those that either he will keep in Reserve, or that have at least 1 model in them that has the Infiltrate USR.

+++++ End Primary Deployment Sub-Phase +++++

+++++ Begin Infiltrate Sub-Phase +++++

==> The players roll off to determine who will place their Infiltrating unit first.
=======>> Player B wins the roll-off and chooses to deploy his Infiltrating unit first, and then does so.
=======>> Player A then deploys his Infiltrating unit.

+++++ End Infiltrate Sub-Phase +++++

++ End Deployment Phase ++


~ Result:
~~~ Cypher has the Infiltrate USR, but since the unit of CSMs that he will operate with (join) do not, either both Cypher and the unit of CSMs must be deployed in his player's Primary Deployment Sub-Phase of the Deployment Phase (before the Infiltrate Sub-Phase begins), OR Cypher and the unit of CSMs he is joining must be placed in Reserves after the Primary Deployment Sub-Phase ends and then arrive either via Outflank or from that players long board edge when they arrive from Reserves.
~~~~~~ In either case, Cypher and the unit of CSMs that he intends to join cannot be deployed together during the Infiltrate Sub-Phase because the CSMs do not have the Infiltrate USR and could therefore NOT be deployed during the Infiltrate Sub-Phase.

Correct?

Pretty much. That's how the rules are laid out (albeit, in a more ordered fashion than the more scattered version in the BRB). I know it sometimes helps to plot it out in an "actual" event to help see things in the proper perspective, so good job laying it out.

Declaring a unit to be in Reserves doesn't have to wait for the end of the "Primary Deployment Sub-Phase" (not the official name, but since it doesn't really have one, it works quite well), but they can be declared at any time during this sub-phase. That's the only actual "error" in it, and it's not worth quibbling over.
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Re: Cypher

Postby NightLordsOldtimer » Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:19 am

DrunkenSamurai wrote:I had a legitimate question and I asked it. Your attitude in the whole thing as just reinforced my decision for not playing. And I will troll any post here I like, thank you.

Robert

Whatever. I wasn't addressing you, but, whatever...

Can we please just get back to the topic?: Cypher - Good? Bad? So-so? Don't care?...
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Re: Cypher

Postby Ahriman » Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:21 pm

Be'lakor is better.
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Re: Cypher

Postby NightLordsOldtimer » Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:12 pm

Ahriman wrote:Be'lakor is better.

Of course Be'Lakor is better. He's also 350 points, 160 points more than Cypher. He'd better be better for those points! :-P
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Re: Cypher

Postby NightLordsOldtimer » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:20 pm

Well, I ended up playing 10 games in a row with Cypher, and went 5-4-1 with that list (mostly 2,000 point games, basically the same list every time).

For the most part he was pretty effective, and I will definitely be running that list again, just need to take a break from it and try some different stuff for a while. But I think he's very points-efficient for what he does. I'd like to try him out with his Formation of Chosen at some point, but need to get some units of Chosen built up and painted, and that's going to take a little while.

In the meantime, I recommend trying him out. I basically dropped my second Heldrake to fit Cypher into my "standard" take-all-comers list, and that helped me play without relying on the "crutches" of 2 Heldrakes, and improved my playing skills, I think, which in itself was a good result of the exercise.

Cypher's not just good at shooting, he does well in close combat, too, and having Eternal Warrior certainly helps him survive in all kinds of situations, even without an invul save. Don't forget that he has Shrouded, too, which confers to his unit and helps when being shot at by low-AP weapons.

Anyone else actually given him a try?
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Re: Cypher

Postby Jaygh » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:31 pm

I want to try him out sometime. Do Empire tournaments allow dataslates? I might run him at the 1750 next month if so.
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Re: Cypher

Postby NightLordsOldtimer » Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:04 pm

I'm pretty sure Jimmy allows dataslates, but I'll ask him next time I talk to him... Or you can just call the store starting Tuesday (he's off Mondays these days)...
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